Jeff Witzeman on Mandated Chemotherapy for Childhood Cancer & Remission

This is the audio transcript of my conversation with Jeff Witzeman on the Very, Very, Quite Contrary Podcast.

You can listen to the podcast by clicking the links below:

Discussed in the podcast:

Janny: Hi, and welcome to the Very, Very Quite Contrary Podcast. I'm Janny Organically. Today, we're gonna be talking about childhood cancer and chemotherapy, specifically mandated chemotherapy for children where there is none in place for adults. I have with me, Jeff Witzeman, filmmaker, former actor, singer songwriter and he is gonna be sharing a little bit about his film. I'm gonna be asking a lot of questions that came out of me watching the film to give you a little bit behind the scenes of what most people aren't aware of. I know I wasn't.

Janny: Before you stop, and say this doesn't apply to you, because you don't have cancer, you don't have kids, you don't have kids with cancer, believe me, I'm some of those categories as well, and I cannot tell you how much more empowered and informed I feel should this happen to me, to at least have access to the information of what's actually going on, do I have any other options, what do I do if I get in a situation, I change my mind, and what kind of rights that we have.

Janny: Jeff is such a wealth of knowledge. He's been down the road, cancer with his wife. He also made a documentary about that, and a parent started calling him about their children, and their chemotherapy process, and which inspired him to make this film. A reader of mine is featured in the film, and she had sent it to me and said, “Hey, would you watch this.” I was shocked with what was happening. I was mostly shocked that I didn't even know about it. I wanted to give you this information, a little insight into the topic and let you listen to my conversation with Jeff because he's more of an expert than I am. My expertise is in asking those questions and so you get to listen in on that, and so here he is.

Janny: All right. We are here. I've got Jeff with me. Now, Jeff, your film, Flipping the Script shows how the US medical system affects children with cancer and their families. The focus of the film is mostly on leukemia and lymphomas but what seem to be the trend was that many patients were going into remission within months or weeks, or some even within days of their initial chemo treatment, but the parents are forced to continue chemotherapy treatment for their child anywhere from two to four years under threat of having their child taken from them by CPS.

Janny: First of all, I did not know this, so I watched the film with great surprise and ultimately a righteous anger. I didn't know there were mandates forcing chemo in children in remission. I come from more of a holistic approach to medicine and though I do recognize the need for emergency medicine, in fact that saved my daughter and I during her birth, I do have … I have had a negative reaction towards chemo, but it only comes from a place of observation.

Janny: We all know people with cancer, and from what I've observed the story can be the same in many cases. You discover the cancer, start chemo, all seems good, cancer comes back. It's bigger, more aggressive, person deteriorates, person dies. I see this happen over and over, and over, and it makes me sad. I've also never walked those shoes so I don't pretend to know exactly how I would respond to a cancer diagnosis in the wake of confusion, medical intimidation, fear tactics, a threat of removing my child, trying to find a lawyer, educate myself on the specific type of cancer and stage.

Janny: I just wanna say upfront before anybody accuses me of being so far removed from this pretending that it's easy. I know it's not. The purpose of me having you here today is to educate the listeners on, A, the state of chemotherapy and mandates for children. Are they in place for adults? What is cancer? What do we know? What is chemo? What are the actual document success rates? What are the alternatives that are available? What's being studied? What's the law? What's the role of CPS? What's the rights of parents? How to go and get an action plan in place for you or your family?

Janny: For anybody who maybe cancer is not a part of your life, you don't know anybody with cancer or know children with cancer, your child doesn't have cancer, this is still really good information to be prepared. The cancer rates seemed to be getting higher and higher.

Jeff: It relates to all medical procedures too.

Janny: Yeah, that's true. I think there is no harm in being prepared having information to help you make educated decisions about medical procedures in your life in general. First, so maybe you can share with the listeners how you've actually already walked this road before with your wife and her diagnosis and treatment options, and then going on to answer that call for the child that process in the US.

Jeff: Yes. My wife had bladder cancer, almost four years ago and she was told by a doctor that she was gonna have to have a her bladder removed followed by chemo and radiation. It just sounded horrible to us along with that surgery. They have to cut the vagina in half to make everything fit afterwards. Fortunately for us, her sister had had cancer five years prior. She had had a malignant melanoma and she went to Germany to treat her cancer naturally with focused heat and ozone therapy, and IV nutrients. Her cancer was gone in 30 days.

Janny: Wow.

Jeff: We thought what do we have to lose? We asked our urologist, we said, “Can we go to Germany and treat this cancer naturally as opposed to having the bladder removed?” he looked us in the eye and said, “There is no way you could go to Germany and treat this.” I think what's disturbing is how forceful and sure they are about something that they have done so little research on.

Jeff: They claim to be the gold standard. They claim to do the peer review, double blind clinical review study on everything they do, but what they don't tell you is that they're only testing the things they wanna test that make money, and they're not testing the things that don't make money because well why would you do that? We have a system in the US where the allopathic medical community was, they were the first ones to pay off the FDA and government to say that allopathic medicine is the only medical opinion that counts in this country.

Janny: Who paid off the …

Jeff: Right. Back in the day when the Carnegies and the Rockefellers investing in hospitals and in medical care, they … At that time there were naturopaths, there were holistic doctors, there were all kinds of different people you could go to. The allopathic medical people wanted to get rid of that threat which is just good business and so they got the FDA, the FDA, Federal Food and Drug Administration to define what is classified as true medical care and what is quackery, and so everybody who doesn't fall into the line.

Jeff: This wasn't a scientific study to determine what's the best way to treat our citizens? This was a financial decision where one party paid another party to say … It's like the music business. You just payola. You pay the radio station to play your song. It's not because the song is great, it's because you're getting paid. I was in the music business, so I understand that. Anyway, the situation with my wife, she went to Germany. Her cancer was cured in 30 days.

Jeff: It was focused heat because cancer can't survive about 105 degrees. It's called hyperthermia. They used ozone therapy to put oxygen in the blood because cancer does not like oxygen, and then IV nutrients to boost the immune system. Her cancer, like I said was going 30 days, she got back and a few months later, a small polyp started growing in her bladder. The small polyp started growing and so she had that small polyp scraped off but she realized she needed to changed her nutrition, and start detoxing her body and she did that. Now, the cancer didn't come back for other two years and then she started having some teeth issues, some infections from some old root canals. Again, the cancer came back briefly. She had that scraped off, had her teeth dealt with and then the cancer stayed away.

Janny: That's interesting that you say that though because I have heard many … I don't remember the exact statistics, but there seems to be some sort of connection with root canal and cancer.

Jeff: Yeah. There's a new film on Netflix now about root canals and how horrible they are. It makes so much money for the dentist that for years they have avoided looking at the evidence but the evidence is overwhelming now and any dentist that does a root canal is completely out of touch with medical science and needs to go back and study. You can't cut off the nerve supply and the blood supply to a tooth and leave that in the body because it becomes a gangrenous organ.

Janny: Right.

Jeff: Then on top of that it becomes an area for infection to happen and multiply. Then immune system goes to fight that first and let's go of all either things in the body. It needs to be taken care of. Normally, under a normal immune system, it takes care of cancer cells, but if it's having to fight a tooth infection, it will fight that first and let the cancer go.

Janny: Right, makes sense.

Jeff: Yeah. Anyway, let's get back to kids here. After I made a film called cancer can be killed, about all these success stories of people treating their cancer naturally, and two months after the film came out, parents started calling me saying, “Hey, wait a minute. My child is in remission from leukemia or lymphoma. They went under remission in the first 10 to 30 days. Why am I being forced into two to four years of chemotherapy?” The doctors are saying the cancer doesn't come back. At first, I thought well, that's ridiculous. We can get you out of this conundrum very quickly.

Jeff: What I found was that no doctor would stand up for a child against this protocol and no lawyer would represent the families against the protocol. That got me on my feet to start making a new film which is called Flipping the Script and it's out on Amazon Prime Videos. In the process of filming Flipping the Script, we found out how to stop long-term chemotherapy, how to give parents the power to decide what to do for their children. We were able to easily educate child protective service workers, attorneys and really the only people we weren't able to educate where the pediatric oncologists, but of course they're making 2 to $3 million a year, so it's very hard to convince them.

Janny: When you say that the protocol is two to four years, is that coming from each individual hospital, is that a nationwide mandate? Who makes the rules?

Jeff: Yes. There's a national group called Children's Oncology Group. Children's Oncology Group makes all the decisions for all the cancers for children and they say, “This is it. You do this, there's no other choice.” Then it's up to the states, each individual state to enforce that mandate. Let's say a child gets cancer, they go into remission in the first 30 days, the parents say, “We don't wanna do this anymore. No more chemo. We're gonna treat our child with nutrition and detox and maybe some cannabis oil. And we're gonna be good to go.” The doctor says, “Well, you can't do that, and I'm gonna call Child Protective Services because you're a negligent parent.” Then Child Protective Services comes to the house.

Janny: That's if they do decide they say, “Go for it. I'm taking my kid out?”

Jeff: Exactly. The parents saying no more chemo.

Janny: Some parents are just frightened by that threat alone and keep going with the chemo.

Jeff: Most parents are frightened by that. It's overwhelming to have a child with cancer and an antagonistic doctor that's threatening your connection to your child. It's beyond the pale. It's so unbelievable.

Janny: Yeah, because it's either you give them the chemo or they're removed from their home and somebody else who they don't know who doesn't love them is giving them the chemo.

Jeff: Right. In the process of making this film we found the answer is to call the doctor's bluff and say, “Go ahead, call Child protective Services.” Then when Child Protective Services comes to the door, you educate Child Protective Services and say, “Look, here's what's going on. Here are the studies that show that chemotherapy does not kill cancer stem cells.” Adults don't go through this treatment that children go through. You can also show CPS, besides that chemotherapy doesn't kill cancer stem cells, that chemotherapy actually causes secondary cancers.

Jeff: The cause of leukemia and lymphoma are toxins the body was unable to process too many toxins at once and so these cancer cells develop. The answer is get the toxins out, get the nutrition in and cancer has no more room to grow. None of these things have been studied by medicine because they're making too much money. They make $1.5 per child. Why would they wanna test cannabis oil? Their argument is, “Well, we've taken people off of chemo after they went in remission, and the children relapsed again. But we put the children on three years of chemo and we have a 90% success rate.”

Janny: Where is that 90% coming from.

Jeff: No. It sounds so good, right? You're like, “Oh, well, okay, if that's the case …” But the fact is when they took these kids off of chemo, after the first 30 days when they went in remission, they didn't do anything for the children after that. These children needed to have their guts repaired. Their body is in shock from all that chemotherapy. These children need to be detoxed. They need IV nutrients, they need restoration. Of course they're going to relapse.

Janny: Right.

Jeff: Again, they weren't able to test anything else so they put these children on three years of chemo because children's immune system are so strong that they can take it, so they just give them the three years of chemo and hope for the best. Now, let's talk about that 90% success rate and what that actually means. All that means is they have a 90% success rate of getting a child to five more years of survival without cancer returning. Not statistically included in that 90% rate are children who die from chemotherapy, children who die from organ failure because of chemotherapy, children who die from the flu or a virus because of immune suppression due to chemotherapy.

Jeff: The actual statistics should be like, I don't know, 30% maybe success rate, and then when you factor in if a child gets relapses five days a year later, they're still considered as success, all the children with brain damage from the long-term chemo, that's considered a success. I mean, you can see why parents who are savvy realized this is ludicrous. I mean, it's not success if my child is passing out, if they're throwing out 50 times a day, if they've got brain damage and we can see it on scans. It was really very exciting to have parents contact me and for us to get the upper hand on this thing, and find ways to save children.

Janny: It's interesting that their protocol with the two to four years of mandates chemo because children's immune systems are stronger than adults?

Jeff: Yes.

Janny: It's almost laughable to me because if we go, and let's define what cancer is, if their immune system was functioning properly would that even give cancer the ability to have thrive in their body in the first place.

Jeff: Right. Exactly. That's why so many children don't get leukemia or lymphoma because they have a healthy immune system.

Janny: Something that I seemed to have come to learn, and maybe you can tell me if this is accurate with a cancer is that it occurs to people with an impaired immune system and we all have or at some point … You have these cancer cells in our body and a healthy immune system would identify those cancer cells and eliminate them, but if your immune system is malfunctioning your body has a hard time identifying those like you mentioned earlier maybe it's focused in on another threat in your body, so the cancer has a chance to grow or spread. Would that be an accurate assessment?

Jeff: That is accurate. Emotional issues can weaken an immune system and then that can allow cancer to flourish because cancer is just opportunistic. It's just trying to grow whenever it can and a healthy body eliminates it. When there's some compromise in some way then cancer jumps in and goes, “Yay, I get to flourish.” Our goal is to keep ourselves healthy and then cancer really doesn't have a foothold.

Janny: Something else that you see in the film because you interview several families that are the savvy ones that are like, “Wait a second. This doesn't make any sense. My child is in remission. I shouldn't have to subject them to this chemo.” I remember one family in particular who was saying that part of what it was doing to him was they had to be the ones to administer the chemo at home in hazmat suits getting everybody else out of the house so that their one child who is the most weakened has to ingest this poison, but the healthier ones in the family, they can't be exposed to it, and to have your young child see you administer said poison, it doesn't seem right to them.

Janny: I identified with that, but also they all … Every single family seemed to have something in common was that the child that got the lymphoma or leukemia, they were sick like they had a bad virus and then it paired with something else like you were mentioning earlier. There's an overload of toxins in the system and so they had had an exposure to … Perhaps it was something like glyphosate or roundup, or it was vaccination paired with a bad virus and the two together created an overload in the body's system.

Jeff: Exactly.

Janny: Maybe it's overloaded, over-stimulated and showed up as cancer.

Jeff: Exactly. What happened in all of these children was that their bodies were overwhelmed with toxins. It either came in the form of a vaccine plus a virus, plus roundup weed killer or a toxic dump being located very close to the house.

Janny: Right.

Jeff: Or an electrical box placed right outside the child's bedroom window where their head was or exposure to EMFs, electromagnetic fields. It's not just one thing, it's multiple things to the point where the body just couldn't take it. The other issue with all these children is genetically, they have some sort of a chromosome or gene that their DNA, they're not able to process toxins as well as other people.

Janny: MTHFR?

Jeff: A number of them had the MTHFR gene, some of them had some other chromosome issues, but that explains why certain children have bad reactions to vaccines and other children don't. I mean, even within my family, my children had varied reactions to vaccines and it confused me. I thought, “Oh, well. The vaccine can't be bad because both children didn't have the same response.” It took me a while to understand that, “Oh my god, my children have their own genetic make-ups and some of them process toxins well and others don't. For all these children, you add up all the factors which is inability to process toxins combined with toxins equals cancer flourishing.

Janny: Right. I do wanna get in to what is chemo, but when cancer does flourish, another thing that is discussed in this film is that there … I don't know the way to phrase this because I don't wanna say they're not cancer but there was one particular case where their child's had gotten checked at one hospital and it was more of a remote hospital. Five hours later, it's checked at a different hospital, and now it doesn't qualify as cancer anymore five hours later.

Jeff: Right.

Janny: What is that? What happened?

Jeff: The body really is trying to heal itself. When you get leukemia, you get an abundance of what's called white blood cell blast, and that is the body's own mechanism of trying to fight off the cancer. In many cases, if these children and these parents were allowed to just do some IV nutrients, or do something else very healthy, the blood cell blast would drop and you would no lo be able to call it leukemia. We don't ever have that option. We don't have the option to give kids IV nutrients instead of chemo.

Jeff: In this case of the one mother who her child was diagnosed with leukemia, she really felt like they rushed to judgment on that whole leukemia and her concern is valid. Doctors and hospitals are very quick to call something cancer and get the process started on chemo. That first 30 days is when they make about $500,000. It's really to their interest to “be overly cautious” about taking care of the child, but in reality, it's just a great way to make money.

Jeff: Let's talk about chemo for a second, because chemo does its place, and let's say a family doesn't want to do any nutrition or detox. They really don't care and they're gonna take their child to McDonald's every day. They don't have money to do any naturopathic stuff. For these people, chemo not necessarily a bad option. It wouldn't be the option I choose, but chemo, what it does is it does kill cancer cells. It doesn't kill the stem cells, it doesn't kill the mother ship, but it does kill all the outliers. The theory is you use chemo to kill all the cancer cells and then just hope the body can rebuild itself and the immune system can survive.

Janny: Would you liken it to an antibiotic were you're taking antibiotic and it kills the bad bacteria along with the good bacteria. When you chemo …

Jeff: Definitely. It kills everything. It just kills everything, and that's the problem with chemo is it can't tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys. It kills everybody. That's the problem with it. I mean, the benefit is that it really drops those cancer numbers down quickly but the other fact, it's like a Las Vegas gambler. He'll get a high which is going in remission and then there's a crash immediately after. Now, the cancer cells will rebound and flourish and they'll be stronger than they were before.

Jeff: Then you put the patient on more chemo. Again, it's like the gambler. “Yay, I just won a million bucks,” but then they lose two million bucks the next day and that's what happens when the person goes off chemo, everything just … Cancer cells just come back and they're stronger than they were before.

Janny: When the chemo basically burns down the house, there are some survivors. Now, would those survivors be cancer stem cells or a few cancer non-stem cells?

Jeff: Mostly the cancer stem cells that are surviving. It kills all the outline cells but the cancer stem cells survive and they're protected and they find a way to move around the body and they get away from whatever is trying to kill them.

Janny: They're replicating, right?

Jeff: They are, and my wife for example who has had bladder cancer, when we get her blood tested with microscopy which is you put the blood under a microscope and look at it, we see that she still has cancer cells in her blood. The beauty is as a result of all the good things she's doing, her cancer cells is surrounded by T cells and those T cells are taking care of the cancer beautifully.

Jeff: This is how it should be and what we have with chemotherapy is chemotherapy is just destroying the T cells and destroying the bone marrow and all the cells in the body, not giving the immune system a chance to do what it's supposed to do. That's the problem with chemo, it just creates so much devastation that it's a temporary fix, it's not a long-term solution and it just makes a lot of money for doctors and drug companies.

Janny: There could be a place for chemo even with children to do a short blast and then go intervene with more nutritional case?

Jeff: Yeah. Ideally for the family who has no other option, they do the chemo for 30 days, their child goes into remission and then after that, insurance covers them to get IV nutrients and cannabis oil, and detox strategies. The children would be fine. I say that because 100% of the children in the film who used cannabis oil detox and nutrition are thriving. They're getting tested on a regular basis so we know they have no cancer in their bodies, and we know they're thriving, but they all have repair work to do from the chemotherapy.

Janny: Right. That's not necessarily an option where you go, you get diagnosed, they say when you start chemo, and you're like, “Great. Let's do it for 30 days. Now, we're gonna transition off and we're gonna do IV therapy.” Nobody is gonna go for that just because you're saying that's what I wanted to choose for my child.

Jeff: There's not a single doctor in the country that would do that and probably not a single doctor in the world that will offer. What we already know to be true, what we already know to heal these children. That's the mess we're in right now.

Janny: Okay.

Jeff: I got to say though, the great news is we are in an age of discovery and of social media, and of parents talking to parents. This will not last. It cannot last because we care too much about our children and we care too much about our rights as individuals, and so already said made this film, “Oh my gosh. Doctors are becoming awakened.” Doctors are grateful for this film. It's just a matter of time before we turn this whole thing around.

Janny: There was a study of the … Oh, gosh. It was the Journal of American Medical Association that had put out a study that said that chemo can cause the healthy cells to secrete a protein that protects cancer cells.

Jeff: That's surprising. Those cancer cells are trying to protect themselves, and the chemo kills a lot of the cancer cells, but for those cells that doesn't kill, those guys double down on their efforts to get stronger and part of that is creating a stronger protein layer that allows them to survive.

Janny: Interesting. For anybody listening, I just had heard a reference, I look it up. If you just want to Google the title, the title is Chemotherapy May Co-opt Healthy Cells to Support Tumors, JAMA which is the Journal of American Medical Association. I do have another question about chemo though. You get around a chemo. Forget that we've just killed up all the healthy cells for a second, but say after your first round of chemo, you changed to another type. Would the cancer stem cells that survived be as resistant to this different type of chemotherapy?

Jeff: No, chemotherapy is that good, that it's somehow…

Janny: …tricks them?

Jeff: Yeah, trick the cancer cells… It's just not that good. If you get the really expensive bags of chemotherapy which is called PEG like they're around $54,000 to $75,000. Those are really effective. They're the most effective at killing the cancer cells but there's always some that survive and I've seen it over and over again. I've seen this children relapse. No, there is no chemotherapy that is totally effective.

Janny: Okay. I think in science and medicine in general, I'm just … I hate black and white statements and this is the only answer, this is the only way right now. This is like chemotherapy, how many years have we been doing chemotherapy. It seems ancient at this point, but this is the best we can do with all of our advances in medicine over the past, I don't know, what 40, 50 years.

Jeff: At least.

Janny: As of right now, there doesn't seem to be legitimate … Well, not legitimate, but other treatment plans being studied as you mentioned before because there's a profit motive. Parents are locked in to that process, and we've already talked about how the medical community has … Their five year, that's their goal is we just need to get them surviving for like five years. There's no rush, there's no expectation that they need to do anything additional. Five years is like their gold standard.

Janny: How do they expect the immune system to just be repaired on its own? They would have to admit that we've burned your immune system to the ground, but we have no strategy to really help you and here's a donut while you're taking your chemotherapy.

Jeff: Yeah. Children are amazing. Their immune systems are phenomenal. That's why aborted fetal tissues is so much money because it's the fountain of youth, and the stem cell work that you can do like if a mother can save her placenta or the cord, and somehow freeze those stem cells, those things can be used in the future. That's the hope is that children can rebound after that, but no, you're right. It's horrible and they're relapsing, and they're dying. It's not a success rate at all what's happening. It's luck that anybody survives that horrendous onslaught.

Jeff: The trick that they do with is that they say cancer is a life-threatening disease. Mumps, rubella, measles, life-threatening disease. When you look a little deeper, these are not life-threatening diseases, these are diseases that have been treated ineffectively. They've been treated poorly and if these diseases are treated responsibly and with things that work, they're no problem. If somebody gets the measles, that actually helps them to create immunity.

Jeff: The way they con us is they say that cancer is a life-threatening disease and therefore we have to do X, Y, and Z and isn't it amazing that it's no longer a life-threatening disease and we can get these children to five years of survival. The smoking gun for me has always been you're not testing the things that we know work and if you're not doing that, you do not have a leg to stand on. You can't mandate anything that hasn't been tested against something else. And if it's toxic and it's killing just one person, you absolutely can't mandate it.

Jeff: In my mind, putting these kids on long-term chemotherapy is criminal. Taking bladders out of patient's bodies who have bladder cancer is criminal and just in the world of bladder cancer, my wife got hyperthermia which is focused heat, which is so effective that in the Philippines they offer a money-back guarantee that if hyperthermia doesn't kill 50% of your cancer in 30 days, they'll give you your money back.

Jeff: What does the FDA do with that information, the FDA does not allow hyperthermia to be even tested in this country. When you see things like that, when you see they're not willing to test cannabis oil, you just have to look the doctors in the eye and say, “I'm sorry. You have no leg to stand on. It's not ethical. In fact it's criminal although we don't have a court right now who can prosecute you. You have to understand it's criminal for you to be giving toxic substances to children and not testing anything else.

Janny: When you say they can't test anything like hyperthermia, would that be government laboratories or could an independent lab in the United States they can test whatever they want?

Jeff: Right. The makers of hyperthermia machines, there's one called Pyrexar. I talked with the CEO from his company and he told me, “I am not allowed to test my machines in clinical trials on cancer. They will not allow it.”

Janny: Not in the United States?

Jeff: Not in the United States. They won't even allow it to be tested in Germany. In Germany, they will allow it to be used but not tested, because then you'd proved it. You'd prove that cancer can be killed with hyperthermia.

Janny: Do they have a reason why they can't be tested? They say, “Oh, it's unethical,” or what do they say?

Jeff: They say because we already have things in place that are effective.

Janny: Oh my God…and we don't want it, we don't even wanna see if we can do something better.

Jeff: Right. I mean, for the naïve, it's important to know that this world is ruled by money and that the very top of the food chain they're sociopaths and they have no concern for the things that the rest of us care about which is stuff like ethics, integrity, health, spirituality. At that level, those guys just want money, and they will do anything to keep the money rolling in.

Janny: I think you had mentioned earlier like we have so much access today. We were just talking about the global health threat; vaccine hesitancy making the World Health Organization list because we're digitally enabled to share information. I'm like, “That's a threat?” Being able to talk to one another and say, “Hey, I think they're withholding information about any number of these things…” like you mentioned the measles too and they'll use global statistics about these undernourished, malnourished individuals with vitamin A deficiency which are the main reasons in lack of sanitation, being the main reasons for complication to the measles. You get somebody that's eating well, that has vitamin A, they're not gonna have any side effects to the measles.

Jeff: Nice.

Janny: And then things like vaccination as a whole, and chemotherapy, it's like everything seemed to be designed to be sanitizing our immune system when in fact we should be exposing it to build antibodies naturally and it's all about protecting against a few illnesses with these side effects that we may not be aware of, things being mandated like vaccination, like chemotherapy and not allowing our immune system to do what it was designed to do with so much artificial stimulation.

Jeff: Yeah. I like the way this nurse put it in the film, Flipping the Script. She said, allopathic medicine has forgotten that the body has the ability to heal itself. These kids, they're not just getting horrible side effects from the chemo, they're also getting very bad side effects from the antibiotics, from the steroids, from the long-term bombardment of their bodies and we haven't been taught of the dangers of antibiotics and of steroids. They are very dangerous and it's just really sad to watch the kids just … Everything just deteriorate.

Jeff: We're back to that problem of they can't recognize the good guys from the bad guys. Healthy bacteria is good, probiotics are good. We don't need to just bombard the body with toxins to kill off stuff. We need to nurture the body and let the body kill off the bad stuff.

Janny: I completely agree. I know I wanna talk to help parents not feel scared about what may be happening or may happen to their child. I never want to be fear mongering, I just want to be educating so that people have access to information and know where to go if the event arises, and understand what we know now about the immune system and how important it us to eat well and be detoxing appropriately. One thing that really spoke to me, maybe super cautious was so one of the families featured in your film, she is a reader of my blog and she's the one who sent me the film and said, “Hey, we're being featured, would you take a look at this?”

Janny: I watched it. Something that she shared with me later, I don't believe it was mentioning in the film was that she … First of all they were told that their child needed chemotherapy and needed it right away. her husband wasn't in the room and she said, “I need to go call my husband. I need to go talk to him first.” They're like, “Well, there's no reason to. We're starting this. Your child needs it right away.” She said, “I'm not gonna have my husband come back in the room and see that we've started this without talking to him.”

Janny: It took her a while to convince them that she was gonna go and talk to her husband that you were going to pray about it. She told me that within the 20 minutes that it took to find her husband and pray about it, that when they had come back, they had already had a medical guardian in place had they come back and said, “We don't wanna do chemo,” that they were gonna do it anyway and they were going to remove the parent from that process. That's frightening because after watching this film, I thought, if I'm ever in this situation, and they come back with my child and says, “They have cancer. It's emergent. We're gonna give her chemotherapy,” I would say, “Hold on. I'm gonna go to the second opinion,” but that may not be an option. They may have signed over medical guardianship to somebody else. That's terrifying to me.

Jeff: Yeah. Let's talk about options the parents have in those situations. What I like about this family is that they choose the option to say chemotherapy is on our team for now, we're not sure if it's gonna be forever, and they ended up signing the release form saying that doctors could do what they were doing. I've heard of another family that crossed out all of the things on the paper they were supposed to sign that said that they were gonna do chemo for any longer than the child going into remission.

Janny: Okay.

Jeff: I thought that was brilliant because that takes away that mandate but the key to all this whole thing is to work with everybody and instead of being antagonistic and belittling, which I would be, is to be very loving and supportive and at all times say thank you so much for your caring concern and let's do this for now. If they give you something to sign, you just cross out everything that you don't wanna do and sign what you are willing to do.

Jeff: I would say in this time that we live in, I'm gonna have passports for everybody in the family that if I need to take off, I need to have that option. It's good to know a family law attorney in your neighborhood just in case some rogue medical doctor says that you're a negligent parent for not doing what I tell you to do whether it's anything from a vaccine to a chemo treatment. If CPS is called … Every community is different, most communities, Child Protective Services really doesn't wanna take your child away. They really just want to eliminate negligent parent and eliminate a liability to the state.

Jeff: If you can convince them that you're really looking out for the health of the child, they will support you and in those very few communities where there are corrupt child protective services organizations, in those cases, it's important to have an attorney present for every meeting with CPS and that usually allows CPS to back off a little. That's the trick for parents to get out of being manipulated.

Janny: Well, and I think you bring up a good point about not being antagonizing because I think as parents, especially the mama bears who wanna be protective of their child, we can react very strongly to any threat. That could come out as fangs and claws. We may not be in the right state of mind to act appropriately that doesn't raise red flags to CPS, and in all cases that you talked about CPS working directly with the families, they didn't seem to be as big of a threat or enemy when they were invited in and the parents were able to educate them, “Look, I love my child. You can see that they're not in emergent health distress. This is what I'm doing. I have another doctor, a team in place and they're thriving.”

Janny: How would you advice going about if you've gotten that diagnoses and you had to start chemo and now you want to leave. What is the first step because CPS is having the … When you're driving and you see the cop light behind you, there's an immediate sense of dread and fear that CPS is gonna get involved.

Jeff: Yeah. One of the things that I've been able to do for families is give them a list of questions to have CPS ask the doctors. I would probably do the chemotherapy to get my child in remission, and after 30 to 45 days at that point, I would tell the doctor were not gonna do any more chemo where you have to call CPS and do what you need to do, but we're not gonna do any more chemo.

Janny: With the lawyer present?

Jeff: No. I would just say that to the doctor and then the doctor would call CPS and then when CPS wants to make an appointment to meet with you, you can meet with them, invite them into your home, explain to them that we have new information about better ways to treat children than with long-term chemo. Back to the thing. If I can provide families with a list of questions for CPS to ask the doctors questions like how much money are you getting in kickbacks for this chemo treatment? Does the 90% success rates statistically include children killed by chemo? Does chemo therapy kill cancer stem cells? Question that basically reveal the fact that long-term chemo is a guess. It's rolling the dice and there's no scientific evidence for it whatsoever. That's good enough. That usually is enough to relieve the situation and for the parents to get free.

Janny: Would need to have another doctor and team in place and is that hard to find?

Jeff: Yeah. That takes a little work and while the child is getting chemotherapy to go into remission, at that point, I would do a search in a five state radius to find naturopaths, functional medicine doctors, holistic providers that are willing to do things like IV nutrients and testing. If your state is cannabis legal, then you can also say that your child is on cannabis oil. If it's not a legal state then you can find ways to work around that.

Janny: Like by moving?

Jeff: You can move. You can get a medical necessity, card that allows you to do cannabis in your state. There are ways to … Even in the illegal states to do cannabis. You have to have a new health team in place and you have to be able to show CPS that your child is in fact in remission and staying in remission. You can do that with that new health team.

Janny: If they get a cancer diagnosis, they're not in remission, you have never started chemo, they're not necessarily gonna be a candidate for you calling and educating CPS?

Jeff: At this stage, this is too much of an uphill battle and even if you move to another country, it's gonna be hard to find any medical doctor that will treat your child. 10 years from now, we'll have cannabis oil and probiotic and enzymes that will immediately save these kids lives and they won't have to do chemo, but we're not there yet.

Janny: Okay. You had mentioned running tests. On your film, Flipping the Script, you mentioned, I don't know if it was you specifically, but some of the doctors and talking about maybe your new team usually would be an integrative or holistic doctor, naturopathic doctor running some tests I never heard of, but doesn't mean anything because I've never know experience cancer. Can you talk a little bit about this test?

Jeff: Yeah. There's one test called Nagalase Test and the Nagalase Test can determine if there's any cancer still in the body. That's great, and that's only about $200. There's another test called live cell darkfield microscopy. It's growing in its awareness and its practice. It's definitely something that the medical industry doesn't want you to know about because it's so effective but what you do is take a prick of blood from the finger, put that under a microscope and you can see if there's any cancer cells.

Jeff: You can see if the T cells are solid and working. You can see if there's white blood cells. All of the things necessary to know if the child is in danger or not. I've watched a number of children do that live cell darkfield microscopy. It's been thoroughly effective not just knowing if there was cancer but also knowing if the immune system was strong enough to fight any new cancer that comes through.

Janny: Somebody like me, but nobody in my family has been diagnoses with cancer, we could call around maybe some integrative naturopathic facilities and ask, “Do you do live cell darkfield microscopy?” and see if they're doing that? Would that be something that would be a benefit for somebody?

Jeff: It's the greatest test for everyone out there to know exactly what's going on in their blood and then a skilled practitioner will be able to say, “Okay. Obviously, you need some magnesium or you need some protease, or you need probiotics, or you need to repair your gut?” Somebody who knows what they're doing will be able to tell you where to go from there. But just having that information of what's going on in your body, that's gold.

Janny: Yeah. I have never heard of that until I talked to you last week and you also had mentioned protease. Can you explain what protease is?

Jeff: Protease is a type of enzyme that breaks down the proteins in the body. It's manufactures new white blood cells. It's like steroids is to a body builder only it's all natural, it's all plant-based and it cannot harm the body in any way. Protease is the most undervalued, underappreciated supplement in the entire supplement world and a lot of people don't know about it yet but if you take protease and you take digestive enzymes when you eat and you take probiotics, that's it. Your body is solid. From there, you're just repairing or treating little deficiencies that you need.

Janny: For somebody like me, I scour all the ingredients and I look at supplements and are they synthetic? Is protease like there is a … It's manufactured one way. Are there multiple different types, different brands and you're like what are you looking for in the label?

Jeff: Yeah. You wanna look for a plant-based protease rather than an animal products protease. You want to find a plant-based protease that has the highest number of whatever the things are. I think it's called HUTs. You can even go on Amazon and you can find different protease and look for the ones that are plant-based and are the strongest.

Janny: Awesome. Okay. Well, that's a really good tip I never heard of that supplement and I'll go and look around, and see what I can find, but also I'm very interested in doing a live cell darkfield microscopy. Now, my first instinct is that going to your regular allopathic medicine doctor, A, they're not gonna run it, B, I don't necessarily want them to have that information because if there is something going on, they might require me to do something with it if it was my child or as a private lab, or these integrative functional medical doctors that maybe aren't affiliated with insurance companies that's your private medical history that nobody has but them and you?

Jeff: That's exactly right. I mean, the people that are doing microscopy are not in the allopathic side. There are allopathic people that are open to it and would welcome it, and would be interested in seeing it but the test itself is gonna be done by probably a naturopathic practitioner in your area.

Janny: Got it. Okay. That's really helpful. I think people are gonna be really … They're googling it right now. There are families that have chosen to leave the country due to … Maybe they didn't have this information of how to get their ducks in a row of how to present the CPS, how to make their case or they didn't even know that CPS would be on their side if they talk to them and they decided to leave the country. Does that put them in a more precarious situation? Should they ever come back?

Jeff: It depends on the state. I think right now we're having an experience in Suffolk County, New York where there's overly aggressive Child Protective Services that got upset with a woman who pulled a child off long-term chemo.

Janny: This was a pretty viral campaign that happened pretty recently.

Jeff: Yeah. It's Justice Nick Gundersen or Justice for Nicholas Gundersen. He's a 13-year-old boy who doesn't want the long-term chemo, who's in remission, doesn't have cancer, and yet is being forced. She was granted permission by a judge to move to Florida and treat her child holistically there. Then CPS just got a different judge to slam the door on that and take the child back. There's no justice at all. In that situation if she were to leave the country, these people might have had the power to go look for another country.

Janny: Wow.

Jeff: In the case of … It's been done in the past. They've used something called Interpol to track these families down and bring them back. That's how much money is in the chemo industry and how much they don't want anyone to leave. Now, in the case of the people in the film who left the country. They were coming from the state of Missouri. Missouri does not have the money to go track down a family that moves to a foreign country. This family was really fortunate to be savvy enough to take care of their child and to do the detox and nutrition to take care of their child with medical help from the new country.

Jeff: Once they realized that their state, Missouri was not gonna be able to chase them down, they felt more comfortable with having more freedom to live in the United States and live in a different state, but 9 times out of 10, even if you move to a different state, they're gonna have trouble following you but …

Janny: Unless your state is so well-funded that CPS has nothing to do but try and find you?

Jeff: Yeah. I just think that's a last ditch scenario is leaving the country. Sometimes it has to be done, but generally they just don't have the money or the time to really follow you.

Janny: To come back to chemotherapy real quick for a second, because I was thinking about something. There are a lot more people being diagnosed with autoimmune conditions these days and just from a high level overview in the autoimmune situation, your body's immune system is attacking itself. It's already not functioning properly, sufficiently. Is there a different type of chemotherapy approach to those with autoimmune conditions because it seems like that would be a huge consideration as you're burning the immune system down?

Jeff: Yeah. There is not a different approach, and in fact in New York, they wanted to give vaccinations to this immune compromised child who was on chemo. The mother was successful in getting a court order to stop that and getting an attorney who would fight for her in court and so CPS backed off of that, the doctors backed off. Everyone backed off. I mean, it just highlights the fact that they were trying to do it. They were trying to give a whole bunch of vaccines to an immune compromised child and they just really don't care about the immune system, all they care about is what's in their little tool box and everything in their tool box is toxic and designed to kill things.

Janny: That just reminds me when you do have to … If you are required to sign anything because I always ask that. A lot of parents ask me like, “Oh my doctor gave me this form. Should I sign it?” “I don't know. Google it.” Most cases no, but I like that when I do have to sign something, I will cross things out. I don't tell people. I never ask. You don't ask for permission and that kind of stuff. You just cross-off and then you sign initial whatever. You do need to read everything that you're signing, and I do know because I've been through birth...

Janny: You go to the hospital and they put in to the paper that you and or your child may be given biologics and they can deliver vaccination via IV. It's not like they come with a needle that says, “Hey, I'm gonna give you an injection right now.” You don't even realize a vaccination is being administered and it's a different wording so make sure you understand all the words and you can ask all the questions before you sign things or just cross it out if you don't know what it is and they don't want to give you the time. My non-attorney advice.

Jeff: Right. Also, if you're not happy with your oncologist or your doctor or whoever then find another one. I mean, you're limited to just one doctor, one hospital. You can go to a different one and keep going until you find the one that's willing to work with you. These families, there's a lot of families that contacted me that said, “Hey, we were able to stop the final year of chemo. Our doctors were receptive and they were willing to hear arguments about the MTHFR gene.

Janny: That's awesome.

Jeff: You have power and you can absolutely find someone different if there's an abuse of situation.

Janny: I just wanna encourage people to go your website. It's It has links to where you can find the film. You can read everybody's story that's in there but also there is a section there that says treatment and you can click on treatment. There's also stopping chemo which gives you a game plan of this is what you need to do. Get an attorney, find a new health team whether or not that attorney is gonna present with you, how to educate CPS.

Janny: It gives you a lot of verbiage and what you need to do before you pull the chord. You avoid a situation like CPS coming after you and raising red flags throughout that, and with treatment in terms of nutrition, and what you mentioned before in terms of IV therapy. I feel like infrared sauna may have been on there as well.

Jeff: Yeah.

Janny: A whole bunch of supplements to support the gut, support the immune system. There's a lot of information just on his website Flipping the Script. But then Obviously you can go and watch the film for yourself. I feel like I knew about cancer and chemo from a high level and obviously excited that I watched it through people in my life, but there were a few pieces of the puzzle that my husband and I were like I think this solidifies what our general understanding was and now we understand the why as to why we may felt intuitive repulsion or fits into what our instinct was.

Janny: Any parent knows, cries. There's the whiny cry. There's the “I'm hungry” cry. There's the “I'm in pain, but it's not as bad” cry. There is a part of the film that I started sobbing because the mom had filmed … Now, I'm crying thinking about it. Their child in the middle of chemotherapy and the wretched cry of helpless pain that child was in.

Jeff: Right.

Janny: A mom, a dad knows that cry and that's what they're acting out of. That, more than anything, spoke to me because as a parent to feel like you cannot make that stop, that you have to continue with what you know could be killing them and that cry of distress is haunting.

Jeff: For the record, the boy was getting something called methotrexate which is the burn down the house chemotherapy. It was causing so much pain for this five-year-old boy. He was just screaming, “My tummy hurts. My tummy hurts,” over and over. The mother got the entire thing. It's so brutal. I was traumatized for a week after hearing that. We figured we have to put it in the film but we have to do it in a way that doesn't traumatize the viewers so much.

Jeff: We just put it in for like five seconds, but that five seconds is enough for anyone like you say who recognizes it to go, “Oh my god. We are doing this to our children and this has to stop.” It's powerful. I still feel like that video, if I could email that to every pediatric oncologist in the country, if they were open and receptive, it would change their minds.

Janny: Right. These oncologist are not coming home with you. They don't witness that. They aren't there with you at night time, during the day watching all of this unfold in context. I have said this about everything in the world, you are the subject matter expert on you child. No doctor is gonna come in and say that this therapy that is given to every single child out there, your child is unique. You observe them and you listen to your gut and investigate that and figure out what's gonna work best for your family and find a team, an attorney, whoever that is going to help you implement that in the legal fashion in a way that you can be successful with it and not have it backfire on you. Our intuition is there to be explored and figure out why do I feel this way? That cry like you said, it's powerful, it's undeniable.

Jeff: Yeah. The good news is two months after that cry, the mother was so fully educated that she was able to say no to the doctors, educate CPS. They told her she could get off the chemo. I just saw the child a month ago, the family was here. They did the live cell darkfield microscopy to confirm no cancer in the child's body, some repair needed to be done and he could do that with the protease, and the probiotics. He doesn't need to be on cannabis oil anymore. There's a happy ending to this. This is a child that would have had to do two-and-a-half to three more years of chemo and it was stopped. The child is thriving now so there's a happy ending.

Janny: That's amazing. I have just talked about cannabis on the previous podcast and so I hope my … If you haven't listened to it, listeners can go and listen to that and explore the difference of CBD and THC, and all the full spectrum and stuff, but is cancer more of a one to one ratio with THC, CBD even in children?

Jeff: It is. You wanna do the one to one ratio of THC and CBD. It creates the perfect honey pot for the cancer cells to think it's food and they go after and eat it, but the mitochondria of the cancer cell revs at a very high rate. When it gets a hold of this THC, it just explodes. It's too much for it and it dies. Its attracted to the CBD and the THC but it's the THC that actually kills the cancer cell, so you need both.

Janny: Are these children on short period of time where they're taking it day and night or is it just night so they're not … I would assume these children would be getting high.

Jeff: Yeah. You don't really get high. It's maybe a little tired, maybe a little sleepy but it's not … There's no psychotropic effects and they were being given by the doctors fentanyl, Ativan, all these things. That created the horrible immune suppression and the bad results but the cannabis oil doesn't really affect them that way. You dose them heavier at night so they just sleep. It helps them sleep. Then during the day it's anti-anxiety but not really psychotropic. It's a win-win and how long do they need to be on it? yeah, probably 90 days is a good cycle. Then keep testing and if you feel like you want to keep doing it, keep doing it, but you don't have to.

Janny: Right. Okay. Well, I hope this is helpful for people. I know that if my child gets so sick in the future though, I do feel like I'm a little nervous but I feel like at least I'd be adequately prepared and know perhaps chemo isn't the enemy initially. I know what I need to do to get a plan in place should that be required. I think that puts me at more peace of just being an informed citizen.

Jeff: Absolutely. There's people out there who you can ask questions to, people that are available that will answer you and you can go to Facebook these days or social media and just say, “Hey, I have this issue. Does anyone know who I can call?” Within 24 hours, you can get somebody that will give you the healthy alternative. People can always contact me, there are other people they can contact and we're not as reliant as we used to be on just one person telling us what we have to do.

Janny: Yeah. Absolutely. Would you agree, I feel like there was some science out there that said, the mainstream doctor averages about 17 years behind what's current?

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, no question about it. It takes 10 years for a new therapy or a new drug to come to market. They are always 10 years behind what's being done and because they're limited to only being able to test drugs, they're not even aware of all the possibilities that are out there.

Janny: Right, because they're not being tested now means even if they start today, it could be anywhere from 10 to 20 years before they get that information.

Jeff: Exactly.

Janny: All right. This is all good information to have. You guys are, as New York Times told you, you're digitally enabled, and I would challenge you to use that and educate yourself. Don't just latch on to anything because it's not allopathic medicine. I would challenge you to do your actual research and read stories and talk to people, watch the film.

Jeff: By the way, we're in an age where medical people like to pooh-pooh anecdotal testimony. They just say, “Oh, it's just anecdotal testimony. Don't trust it.” Actually for me right now, anecdotal testimony is the only thing I trust because the medical information has been so corrupted that I can't even trust what studies are being put out there.

Janny: Who's funding them and the scientist being incentivized and getting paid by the manufacturers, it's all a mess.

Jeff: if you got another mother who's telling you this is what works, listen to that and find other mothers that agree and then you found something you can trust.

Janny: Yeah. That's a good point. All right. Well, Jeff. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and everybody go and check out the website, check out the film. Let us know how you like it and spread the word. Again, just because a friend of yours doesn't have cancer, doesn't have a child with cancer, I think the important part about all of this is just to be equipped. I would spread this message and also sign the change. You have petition as well, right, that you're going to deliver?

Jeff: Yeah, we do. I just wanna say to knowledge is power and this film will give you so much knowledge. It'll help you on a number of areas, health areas, not just cancer.

Janny: Yeah. I agree. You can find the petition on the website as well under flipping the script.

Jeff: That's right.

Janny: Under treatment, there's petition and it takes you to to stop the forced chemo on children. Now, with that, I will close and you can let us know if you have any questions and let us know what you think, and what you learned today.

Jeff: Amen. People can contact me on the website if they need to.

Janny: All right. Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff: All right. Thanks, Janny.

Janny: Wow. Well, I hope you feel more informed. I hope you feel educated. I hope you feel equipped to be able to tackle this should you need it. What's gonna happen from he is I'm going to create a blog post. You'll be able to go to and my latest podcast as of this moment or you can search for Jeff Witzeman or cancer on the blog and it'll probably populate this podcast as a blog post, so there will be a transcript shown of our entire conversation. I will also link to mostly everything that we talked about, so there will be a link to his website, It'll also have links to his subsections of what to do; to stop chemo and supplements, et cetera.

Janny: I hope that you share this with anybody because the goal of all of this is to be informed citizens, to be informed parents, to be able to make the best decision for our family as it relates to us. If you wouldn't mind, if you have already downloaded this episode, great, if you could just gave us a rating and a review. When that happens, this podcast gets elevated in the recommended podcast, so it gets to more people. If you could do that for me, I really appreciate it. Again, you can find all this information on Thanks, guys.